Today, I thought of taking this topic of god and theism because of my personal experience in discussing with few physicists (my good friends and fellow researchers) when I was in Dublin for an internship (in matter and laser physics).
If we “argue” we will have no win, no loose but only left with doubts. One need to have open mind and intuitive intellect rather than a closed intellect with atheism or theism. I will be aligning my thoughts some what mixed, but would like to arrive at “Theism” consistently. Before that, I would define the two terms exclusively :
Atheist — One who do not believe in existence of a person / higher being named GOD and believes that whole universe runs on few basic “Principles / scientific facts”.
Theist — One who believes in existence of a super human being / a conscious advanced being(s) who control the universe and its entities.
First, let us take a trip to a scientist.
If we go to a true micro-biologist and say
—–” You are a fool ! We can’t see the microbes with our naked eyes. How can you say that they exist ? ”
He would laugh and reply
—– “No, you are a fool. Of course you can’t see with naked eye as our eye is not fit for seeing such small beings. But you can see with help of an electron microscope. So, use and see it for yourself”.
Now, if you argue with him saying ” I do not believe you as, the electron-microscope is causing an indirect image on monitor that is not real and you are not using your eye to see directly, so this must be just an illusion / machine product, he would give a poker face – look at us as if we came just out of a mental hospital right after having a shock treatment 😛
Let us take a take a trip to a true Yogi / Spiritual Guru (as an atheist) and say
—- ” You are a fool and cheat people. We can’t see god or hear. How can you say he exists ?”
He would also laugh and reply that
—- ” My divine child ! you are seeing through wrong instrument. We – the spiritualists have already claimed that whom we called as GOD, is beyond the senses and imagination or logic of human mind. He can be perceived only after practicing YOGA – which enhances the instruments of humans and makes it fit for “seeing” him (when yogi says ‘him’ he doesn’t mean a human form god or some thing — please note). So, practice Yoga and see it for yourself”.
Now, we may refuse him by
—-” No, yoga just tranquilizes the mind and so what you say GOD is just a FEELING in your mind and so is a non quantifiable / provable entity or a psychological effect and hence GOD doesn’t exist “.
Now, we can see that, in both the cases, person who asks tries to be defensive in his perceptions and is less open minded. If we use microscope for ourselves and verify the laws of optics (for microscope) and laws of electronics and computer sciences (for image formation on screen) we may convince ourselves that what we see on screen is reeally a microbe !! This is science, and so is easy.
But coming to second part, there are many pits where an atheist can push us into. How ? lets see.
Now, similar to the above argument, when one practices yoga as prescribed by ancient seers, one will “REALIZE” and then see who/what GOD is. If you ask any one if he is in a dream or alive, he has no answer. Because we do not have a particular definition of dream — you all must have watched inception, so link this to it.
Actually, both are correct upto certain stage. Yes, universe is run by set of laws and yes a conscious being is controlling. How are two correct ? aren’t they contradictory ? No, they are not to me.
A classic example is “NUMBER(S)”.
You must be thinking I have gone mad — “How is a number anything to do with atheism, theism or god ???? You freak ?” must be your reaction. That is where, my view is something different from routine atheist-theist arguments. Let’s dive
What is a number ? if some one asks What would you say ? I would guess — “It is a quantity / entity to count ” or some thing else. What we write as ‘1’, ‘2’ etc are but symbols which symbolizes ________. You need to fill this. I can not express it. Because we can not express, we made a symbol to convey that some thing ! So, I would have answered “Number is something that exists in space as a property which can be understood by our limited consciousness, but can not be expressed directly to another person”.
Am I making any sense ? NO ? ok. Let me elaborate.
A number is already inbuilt in our system’d software, which we call Consciousness (though few scientists argue, I would define this software to be that with which we are able to know we exist). Ability to count comes, only if we have had the ability to understand the word count itself. i.e. clearly seen in kids. Even if kids do not know numbers, or how to count or add or subtract, when you give 3 chocolates to one and 5 to another, the first kid would cry — why ? because the number-consciousness is already inbuilt in him and so can “FEEL / realize the difference”. People say that genes has ability to reproduce the same blueprints — 2 eyes – 1 nose, 2 years – 1 mouth, 2 hands – 1 trunk, etc. or 32 teeth, 10 fingers etc. Now, are these “Symbols called numbers” written in genes or what ? No, the so called genes have the “CONCEPT” of numbering system and hence follow the symmetry. Now, ancient Indians called such “Number-Conscious Concept /entity” a DEVA (higher intelligence) called KAPILA. Not only Kapila. there are many more devas / principles – Later on, we misunderstood such terms as persons with super human abilities (such people too exist, I will speak else where). KAPILA is no person or we cant even imagine. Can you imagine a shape for a concept ?Or lemme ask — when you think of a concept, can you even locate where it is coming form ????
So, if you contemplate on this concept of NUMBER, you will understand that “Yes, universe is run by laws”, but such laws are Conscious and are self intelligent. Pythagoras wrote 33 volumes among which one of the volumes is on Numbers and he said that “Numbers are consciousness in space”. Similarly for ancient Indians or Greeks or Egyptians, there were many Gods / sub-gods / demi-gods all symbolizing the conscious principles that run this universe. The highest form of intelligence from which all these sub-intelligence originated is what we call GOD.
I pity on those who argue on seeing god. He can not see what a concept is. What a thought is. Where the mind is. What a number or shape is. yet he wants to “see” god. Only those with dedication and sincerity yet strong in their intellect and logic, can see and understand god.
Thank You !
I completely agree with your point dude. Finally I meet someone with views which are similar to mine. One question, Do you live in India by any chance?
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Hie there ! Good to hear that 🙂 Yes I live in India. my mail id is “ firstname.lastname@example.org”. You can drop a mail so that we can start exchanging our views 🙂
Now, ancient Indians called such “Number-Conscious Concept /entity” a DEVA (higher intelligence) called KAPILA.
Is it somehow the founder of Sankhya Darshana, Kapila Muni?
Sankhya karikas are wrongly understood as Kapila’s Sankhya. Unfortunately that’s by a relatively modern scholar. Original Sankhya system (related to sankhya or numbers) is given out by sage (or personified consciousness).Kapila Muni. Fragments of his teachings are available in Bhagavatam and Gita.
So only fragments of his teachings are available? Like not his mainstream teachings available in some text?
No. The reason is, many teachings are given as initiations in the inner circles of masters. For the common man, the teachings in bhagavatam and Geeta are complete. For an initiate, the original Kapila manifests in the buddhi to reveal. We often forget that the “understanding” happens inside not outside. Doesn’t matter whose text book we read, some concepts are understood when our faculties are ripe and a sudden current of experiencing the knowledge starts within. Thus, no teaching that you see in written form is “complete”, they are all fragments of ONE Truth.